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Up Topic Hauptforen / CSS-Forum / Some notes about openings!
- - By Sedat Canbaz Date 2014-09-23 17:03
Dear Chess Friends,

I decided to open a thread about short neutral engine openings (up to 8-10-12 moves)
Due to such thread is missing...!

To be honest,
I opened this thread it's not because I wish to increase the Perfect book users...
I have thousands of users...it's ok...this is not the reason
The reason is that about why I opened this thread,
It makes me feel very sad...in case of testings with weaker openings...
Also I noticed that still many people have no clue about engine openings...
Plus I hope my current thread will make a little bit influence over the chess friends who prefer weak openings!

And now let's discuss about openings..because it's boring to discus only over origins, right ?)

So...I could not check all played openings of the available ratings...
Due to I have no much free time, plus some testings do not serve the games (e.g IPON)

And what I noticed (which I checked so far...),
Some top engines lost their games just due to using very weak opening lines...

Actually even in SCCT happens sometimes,
But not very often, because I make almost daily opening optimizations...
My main goal about Perfect 2014t book: its almost all lines to be approx. 55% Whites / 45% Blacks
I know very well that nobody work is perfect (including mine too)
But however,
The most important question: which neutral short book has more or less holes ?

So...I have some questions to those chess engine testers, who prefer oftenly weak opening lines:
-Why you prefer those weak openings, just because it is your favorite ?
-Or maybe because you have a lot of free cpu time ?
-Have you ever checked your played chess engines games?
-Did you look at the winning percentage of your used opening lines?
-Did you ever notice your opening lines to be less than 35 % winning percentage (played by your engines) ?
*Note:I mean about openings at equal engine strength based on many engine games!
*A little hint: e.g check please why Stockfish, Komodo, Houdini etc.. lost against weaker participants?!
-Did you ever make any opening move optimizations over the lines which suffer in your testings?

BTW, I can give you another example about the current issue (for those who use not so strong lines),
1)Imagine Michael Schumacher to drive a vehicle of 1990 years
or
2)Imagine Michael Schumacher to drive on damaged road?

Can we expect a good performance?) 
Yes...a such picture will be fun...but only 'fun' no more no less...)!

Note also that we are in 2014...
And it's time for revolution for all engine testers too!

For more details:
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53739&start=30

And last (as I mentioned before)
I know very well too that working over openings is not so easy as it looks...
But difficulties are always way for success...
So we must overcome all difficulties and to bring the success!
My best wishes for less difficulties and to reach the great goal!!

Greetings,
Sedat
Parent - - By Thomas Zipproth Date 2014-09-24 23:38
Sedat Canbaz schrieb:

So...I have some questions to those chess engine testers, who prefer oftenly weak opening lines:
-Why you prefer those weak openings, just because it is your favorite ?
-Or maybe because you have a lot of free cpu time ?
-Have you ever checked your played chess engines games?
-Did you look at the winning percentage of your used opening lines?
-Did you ever notice your opening lines to be less than 35 % winning percentage (played by your engines) ?


Because there is no reply so far, I would like to clarify some things:
I'm not sure about the meaning of  "engine tester" in your question.

Do you mean why people who create rating lists or play tournaments like TCEC use weak lines in their opening database, which would eventually lead to wrong results?
Or do you mean why people sometimes use weak opening books when playing engine chess online, for example in playchess or infinity chess?

Greetings,
Thomas
Parent - By Ludwig Buergin Date 2014-09-25 08:33
Hallo Thomas

Habe mir das Schreiben von Sedat mit Google übersetzen lassen.Bin mir fast sicher, dass Sedat in mehreren Foren schreibt und nur aus Versehen CSS angekligt hat.

Gruß Ludwig
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz Date 2014-09-25 09:28
Thomas Zipproth schrieb:

Sedat Canbaz schrieb:

So...I have some questions to those chess engine testers, who prefer oftenly weak opening lines:
-Why you prefer those weak openings, just because it is your favorite ?
-Or maybe because you have a lot of free cpu time ?
-Have you ever checked your played chess engines games?
-Did you look at the winning percentage of your used opening lines?
-Did you ever notice your opening lines to be less than 35 % winning percentage (played by your engines) ?


Because there is no reply so far, I would like to clarify some things:
I'm not sure about the meaning of  "engine tester" in your question.

Do you mean why people who create rating lists or play tournaments like TCEC use weak lines in their opening database, which would eventually lead to wrong results?
Or do you mean why people sometimes use weak opening books when playing engine chess online, for example in playchess or infinity chess?

Greetings,
Thomas


Ok...just to be more clear,
This thread is not for online tournaments, correspondence games, book vs book competitions etc...
It's just for engine testers (including TCEC too) who prefer short neutral openings!

To be honest,
I checked only one TCEC's opening position and unfortunately TCEC suffers too!
e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e5 Nfd7 6. h4 O-O

Note that I used the above same position only for my Stockfish benchmarks:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/?page_id=19
But not for SCCT ratings...(because this TCEC's opening line is very weak!!)

And here the current TCEC's position
Look please at the winning percentage. based on recent CCRL and Playchess games:

1)AntiStock book (based mainly on Playchess games): 25% !
.


.
2) CCRL (40/40)'s winning percentage: below than 14% !!
.


Hopes helps...

For more details:
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53802

Best,
Sedat
Up Topic Hauptforen / CSS-Forum / Some notes about openings!

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